Interview with Andre Azoulay, Senior Advisor to King Mohammed VI of Morocco

Andr�© Azoulay is Royal Advisor to His Majesty, King of Morocco and a member of the Royal Cabinet, a position he has held for 14 years.

Q: What does Morocco seek to offer to and gain from the countries of Central and Eastern Europe?

A: Our populations have much to offer each other. What is now on the table in terms of direct investment, trade and economy, it is very modest. The potential is very high. We need to foster relations with the Central and Eastern European nations that are now members of the European Union, to make their populations more familiar with Morocco and to bolster ties to the EU. We have to design a new format for our relations with the nations of this region, a new dynamic that is both bigger, faster and stable. We needn’t view the nations of this region as competition, but on the contrary, as complementary.

Q: It was clear in the mid 1980s when Morocco applied to join the EU (then EC), that there is a strong will to build stronger ties with Europe. What could be the nature of these ties?

A: First of all, Morocco is Africa, Morocco is the Arab world and Morocco is Europe. Morocco is 14 km from Spain. In our view, we have to break this status that limits our relations to Europe based on economy and trade with no connection to strategy and politics. We have to find something that is closer to full membership, even if not called full membership. We need political relations, a political status, a strategic approach, a constitutional definition of our relations. The EU is our number one partner in terms of investment, trade, funding and loans, in terms of creating new jobs. I don’t see any limits to what Europeans can do in Morocco. I hope that in the near future there will be no limit to what Morocco will achieve with EU members in terms of investments, partnerships, and free circulation of people and not only the rich. This is the future and I’m very pleased with it. Even if now we are confronted with an archaic and unfair perception on the part of many opinion leaders because of what is happening in the Arab and Muslim world, I think this a misconception based on ignorance that will not last. We in Morocco know everything about Europe. But Europeans unfortunately don’t know a lot about Morocco, our history and culture. But I am sure we will find a way to solve this.

Q: It has been suggested that Morocco’s culture, art and handicrafts could serve as a bridge.

A: This is vital. This is how people will change their minds and become more aware of the reality, through culture. I don’t see any ideologies of trade or economic cooperation or the usual political gains filling the gaps of knowledge. Painting, music, cinema and other intellectual expressions can quickly change the minds of people. This is the only way. You can create wealth by promoting culture. You can create knowledge and bring people closer to each other with culture in ways that ideology and economy could not afford to do, especially if change must come quickly. And now we have a situation of ideology against ideology. An extremist mood is creating problems, not only in the Western world, but in the Jewish world, in the Christian world. You have now this emerging picture of confrontation, of hate and of extremism. We have to act now quickly. But again it’s a challenge. We must do our best to apply culture to disarm the current mood.

Q: The question I’ve wanted to ask is what was it like to grow up as a Jew in Morocco, in Essaouira?

A: I feel more than 2000 years old. As a Jew here I belong to a community that arrived long before Islam. I have complete legitimacy in this country. I would not ask charity from my Moslem colleagues. I am exactly like them, I have the same rights, the same ambitions, the same roots. More than that, I am older. In the city where we are now, Essaouira, is the only such place in the Arab and Muslim world that had a Jewish majority. For a long time, Essaouira was a Jewish, Christian and Moslem city. In those days the Jewish population was between 16,000 and 30,000 and the Moslem population was between 10,000 and 12,000. This was a long time ago. It’s not the situation now. The stones, the people, the chemistry, the very special chemistry of Essaouira was created by this merging, by this physical merging. There is a mutual respect, a mutual knowledge. I was born here, was educated here, as was my wife. This city was built on respecting the dignity of others. My Moslem neighbor never presented any problem and always treated me as his equal. That’s why I am troubled by what is happening now in Israel and Palestine. Until the Palestinian is afforded identity and dignity, my Jewishness is weakened. I am not Jewish by my blood, I am Jewish by my brain and by my values. That’s why I think the experience we have fomented in this culture could be a good message. I am advisor to the commander of faith who is a direct descendant of the Prophet Mohammed. There is no other Arab or Moslem country where you have a Jewish person in such a responsibility. It’s not by accident and has nothing to do with my person, just a continuation of a long tradition. Our history has its black pages and white pages and rose-colored pages. But at the end of the day, it is positive. And we are keeping alive this light of hope. As the French would say, the art of the possible; what is possible to do now.

Q: If there were one bit of advice you could give to Ariel Sharon, what would it be?

A: If I were Ariel Sharon, I would immediately call for a Palestinian State, and would do the maximum to sustain, help, support and fund the Palestinian recovery. I would have this privilege as the Jewish State. And I am sure this electro shock will bring not only peace but reconciliation. Peace will happen one day, but what we are trying to do is first to make possible reconciliation in the minds of the people, in the hearts of the people. Peace is a political decision. But to have real peace is to have the people reconciled with each other.

If I were President Bush, I would do as Clinton did and make peace between Israel and Palestine my top foreign policy objective. I think the United States needs to reconsider its approach, dramatically, completely. If the United States were to support the founding of a viable Palestinian State, then they would find the world a safer place.

Q: In Budapest, Jews from around the world come to visit the old Jewish neighborhoods and synagogues. The understanding is thereby fostered that despite Holocaust and Hungary’s participation in it, Hungary remains an important center of Judaism. Could the same approach be taken with Essaouira?

A: Yes, I am sure that by showing that the normal situation here for centuries was one of mutual respect – Jews and Christians and Muslims living and working together – good neighborhoods, mutual creation of wealth. I’m sure that it could be a good showcase and it could help people to hide this temptation of following this path of exclusion and hate. We need it. We need it immediately.

Q: The president of Morocco’s Al Akhawayne University came to Budapest recently and spoke at the Central European University and met with the rector, an Israeli man named Yehuda Elkanin. The result was an academic conference. What could be done to follow up this engagement?

A: I am vice president of Al Akhawayne University and a member of the board. If an event could be organized to bring CEU students to Essaouira, I would support it. At Al Akhawayne, we have a number of partnerships in Europe and all over the world. So I think it’s a great idea to invite East European university students and from other universities to come here, to experience the chemistry of this place, to educate people and to express some signals.